August 26, 2010
AnyNowhere — daily chat log — back (to logs index)
00:31, Ryan> Problem is there are several rival forks of HOTU now (http://hotud.org/ being the other major one)...
00:32, Ryan> ...And without Sarinee at the helm, it's hard to imagine any of them ever having the sense of purpose of the real HOTU back in the day.
00:33, Cryoburner whispers: Wait... what was its purpose? :P
00:36, Ryan> The point was always to act as a hub for preserving classic games that weren't necessarily popular enough to be constantly republished in the modern day.
00:40, Ryan> (Just for those reading who weren't there "back in the day") :P
00:43, Raptorjedi> Now with sites like GoG though, games people would have gone to HOTU for can now be bought for 5-10 bucks.
00:44, Ryan> Yeah, which is probably partly why Sarinee lost interest, because there were better channels emerging for the task.
00:44, Ryan> Still a shame about the community being gone with it though.
00:44, Ryan> For some reason, it always attracted the very best kind of bitter, sarcastic and neurotic people. I miss that place. :P
00:46, Ryan> HOTU was always really supportive of the freeware scene, which was great. Noctis really took off when it hit HOTU.
00:47, Raptorjedi> Yeah
00:48, Ryan> Funny, I was saying earlier today that it's like the old freeware scene has gone these days.
00:49, Ryan> I think HOTU disappearing was one of the big nails in the coffin.
00:49, Raptorjedi> It's getting harder and harder to find interesting freeware. I have to dig now to find it.
00:49, Raptorjedi> And 99% of the time, what I find is the same old stuff with nothing new.
00:51, Ryan> Yeah. There are a lot of really interesting developers and ideas around...
00:51, Ryan> ...But the problem is that the current "indie" scene seems all about demonstrating ideas more than making great games.
00:52, Ryan> Not that some great things don't come out of it, of course. :)
00:52, Cryoburner> Maybe that's just because you've played a lot more games now, so less things seem unique. :)
00:52, Raptorjedi> It's not so much about things being unique Cryo, as it's the SAME GAMES I saw five years ago, and five years before that, making the same rounds.
00:53, Raptorjedi> It's like there isn't much new being added, it's just the same freeware games passed around over and over.
00:54, Ryan> There are still some really great freeware developers around.
00:54, Cryoburner> There are some interesting Flash games floating around.
00:55, Cryoburner whispers: You might have already played them though. :P
00:55, Jam knows a great indie game... It starts with "Paddle"
00:55, Raptorjedi> The only freeware games I really play these days are RL Prospector, Dwarf Fortress and sometimes Wesnoth.
00:56, Raptorjedi> I played Elona for a while, Knytt was great
00:57, Jam whispers: I recently rediscovered Nethack
00:57, Cryoburner> Knytt Stories! :P
00:57, Ryan> Yeah, Nifflas' stuff is always pretty cool.
00:59, Raptorjedi> There's less freeware stuff around too as people started to notice that lots of people were coming around to the idea of buying indie games.
01:01, Ryan> The whole indie scene is very different to the freeware scene. There's a lot of emphasis on experimental games...
01:02, Raptorjedi> I used to be the kind of person who wouldn't dream of buying a game like that. But I came around, I don't buy them still, but not because I think the idea is silly :3=
01:02, Ryan> Which tends to mean "puzzle platformers with a twist". Usually very interesting, but about four levels long.
01:03, Raptorjedi> Braid is a good example of that.
01:03, Ryan> I could probably find a hundred more on the first page of the TIGSource forums. :P
01:04, Raptorjedi> Minecraft is a good example of how independent games can succeed without being puzzle platformers with a twist.
01:04, Raptorjedi> Yeah, but how many of those cost 15 dollars? :3=
01:05, Ryan> Yeah. There are some really good games coming out of the indie scene.
01:05, Ryan> Ha. :P
01:05, Ryan> Thing is, the in thing at the moment is "casual gameplay", which essentially means games for people with short attention spans.
01:06, Raptorjedi> My favorite part of TIGSource is the competitions. I've seen some interesting games come out of those.
01:07, Ryan> Yeah, been really impressed with some competition entries recently.
01:07, Ryan> Again though, time-limited competitions don't lead to involving finished games.
01:08, Ryan> (Generally, at least).
01:09, Cryoburner> Jayenkai sometimes releases some interesting freeware... http://jayenkai.socoder.net/
01:10, Cryoburner whispers: Not exactly 'involving finished games' though. :P
01:11, Ryan> No, not really. :P Still impressive though.
01:12, Ryan> I've played quite a few of his, and the quality is amazingly high for someone making a game every week.
01:12, Raptorjedi> Most freeware games I find these days, I discover from the Dwarf Fortress forums.
01:13, Ryan> (I just about manage a game every couple of years...) :P
01:13, Neuzd> Ohi Ryan, I saw Taehl registered here.
01:14, Ryan> I never found the time to get into DF. Looks pretty in-depth, which is cool.
01:15, Ryan> Unfortunately, if I started playing games like that, Evowok Breeder might never see the light of day. :P
01:15, Ryan> Hey Neuzd. :)
01:17, Cryoburner> DF is neat,though its interface could be better. :P
01:17, Ryan> Didn't I see there's some sort of graphical tileset version out now?
01:18, Raptorjedi> There's a bunch of them.
01:18, Raptorjedi> I don't use them though
01:18, Cryoburner> Yeah, though you still have to use the game's standard hotkey interface for interacting with it.
01:18, Ryan> Ah.
01:19, Raptorjedi> The hotkey interface isn't an issue.
01:19, Cryoburner whispers: The hotkey interface sucks. :P
01:19, Raptorjedi> As I've said before, it took me like a half an hour of play time to memorize the commands for everything important.
01:20, Cryoburner> Once you get used to it, it can be tolerable, but I'd hardly say it's better than a more visual interface.
01:21, Raptorjedi> Well no, but I'm just used to the hotkeys. Even if he added in a visual one in the future, I'd want to keep using the hotkeys.
01:22, Cryoburner> I'm sure it turns away a lot of potential players as well, since a lot of people don't want to read through a lengthy tutorial just to start playing a game.
01:23, Raptorjedi> Who reads the tutorial?
01:23, Raptorjedi> I didn't.
01:23, Raptorjedi just jumped right in, it lists all the commands right there.
01:23, Cryoburner whispers: Or instructions. :P
01:25, Ryan> Damn it, now I find myself at the DF site considering downloading it. Dare I?
01:27, Ryan> I've taken to posting cool freeware games I find in this thread: http://www.rjbsoftware.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=77
01:29, Raptorjedi checks it out
01:29, Ryan> The last couple of pages have quite a few really good games I've played recently.
01:33, Ryan> Well, just downloaded Dwarf Fortress. Think it'll have to sit in my "games to play" pile for a little while though.
01:34, Ryan> Far too busy to get into something that heavy right now. :P
01:35, Raptorjedi> You know what I'm waiting for? Evowok :3= IS IT OUT YET?
01:35, Raptorjedi> HOW ABOUT NOW? :3=
01:37, Ryan> :P
02:19, Cryoburner whispers: It will be out sometime after Noctis V.
02:21, Cryoburner whispers: At least, that's the schedule I set for S3K. :P
02:22, Cryoburner whispers: It's a schedule you can count on! :D
05:06, Mary Lou> But I told you I don't know!
05:49, Albeyamakiir> Stop taking to yourself, ML...
07:19, Cryoburner whispers: Perhaps she was answering RJ's Evowok question. :P
07:24, Buuks whispers: Would be busy times for Cryo whan Lexy will release NV today, he wouldn't even be able to play it. :P
08:22, Cryoburner whispers: I think you missed the intentially vague "sometime after" part. :P
10:15, Buuks whispers: I think I intentially missed that part. :P
10:19, Buuks> Mary Lou, what do you think about S3K?
10:19, Buuks whispers: ah, the uncomfortable silence..
10:58, Albeyamakiir> It's not uncomfortable. It's bliss...
14:33, Mingamango181> I don't usually stay up this late...
14:34, Jam> I usually get up earlier...
14:37, Jam> Do you know anything about Xcode, Mingamango?
14:52, Mingamango181> Not really...
16:49, 4616599> Let's ask our friend AI...
16:49, 4616599> Mary Lou, what is Xcode?
16:49, Mary Lou> Xcode is a suite of tools for developing software on Mac OS X, developed by Apple.
16:49, Mary Lou> Xcode is a suite of tools for developing software on Mac OS X, developed by Apple.
16:50, Cryoburner> Mary Lou, what is XNA?
16:50, Mary Lou> I have no idea.
16:51, Cryoburner whispers: You are uncooperative Mary. What is Microsoft XNA?
16:51, Mary Lou> Microsoft XNA is a set of tools with a managed runtime environment provided by Microsoft that facilitates computer game development and management.
16:52, Cryoburner whispers: See? That's what Jam should be using. :P
16:58, Jam whispers: If I had that, I wouldn't need to make the Mac version... :P
17:01, Jam> I finally figured out why Xcode wasn't finding the files. I had a space in the name of one of the directories...
17:02, Jam whispers: I should have realized that sooner... The Lino compiler doesn't like spaces either.
17:03, Speeder> ( crap )
17:04, Speeder> I hate spaces too in novashell, I remove them all, but one directory is mandatory, later I will fix this too (there are a directory that needs to be exist, and is hardcoded... it is named "Objects Pallete")
17:06, Jam> Now I only have 105 errors, rather than 10,000...
17:09, Jam> Something relating to this line: "extern LUABIND_API detail::nil_type nil;" in SharedLib/luabind/luabind/nil.hpp
17:12, 4616599> Grr. Looks like I just lost a customised map I made for some game. All those hours of stuff blowing up...
17:20, Jam whispers: What game?
17:24, Speeder> Jam what is the error?
17:25, 4616599> Some sim thingy. I made this massive tank-naval-etc. battle to fly in. (you take off right in the middle of intense fighting, of course)
17:25, 4616599 whispers: Ah well, such things happen with Windoze all the time...
17:32, Cryoburner whispers: Not if you save. :|
17:37, 4616599 whispers: Nope. I had played it several times. So I edited it again and added more ships and tanks on both sides. Then when I opened it ingame there was a map error. Only a flat sea!
17:37, 4616599> Why Mary Lou?
17:37, Mary Lou> Yes, instead.
17:39, 4616599> Ah. Thank you, Mary Lou. Instead, of course.
17:39, Mary Lou> Pas the quo's, or something like that.
17:46, Speeder> We should band behind one of the hotus and help them get off the ground again.
18:30, Cryoburner whispers: Incremental saves. :P
18:31, Cryoburner whispers: Speeder, shouldn't we get this site a bit busier first? :P
18:51, Jam whispers: The error is "Expected unqualified-id before '__null'"
19:12, Speeder> I think I saw this error when making the GNU build. Let me see if I can track it down again.
19:25, Jam> What program did you use to compile Novashell?
19:31, Speeder> GCC
19:31, Speeder> on Mac the Novashell author use XCode and GCC
19:32, Speeder> I use Code::Blocks and GCC on both Linux and Windows (and when I have a Mac, will use Code::Blocks there too, XCode is ridicously big)
19:35, Jam> Maybe I should use Code::Blocks instead...
19:41, Mary Lou> Welcoming a new member: "Xivel".
19:44, Speeder> It would not make much difference I think... Except maybe it would allow you to load my code::blocks project and press "build" on the GNU build and see what happen
21:45, Mingamango181> Not really...